The Sneaky Plan to Subvert the Electoral College for the Next Election

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CGP Grey

CGP Grey

7 aylar önce

Footnote: trwomen.com/id/video-6JN4RI7nkes.html
Thank you, my patrons, for making this video possible: www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=227816
## Related
Faithless electors: trwomen.com/id/video-COmW6r23zas.html
## Special thanks
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YORUMLAR
CGP Grey
CGP Grey 4 gün önce
An update, sort of: trwomen.com/id/video-COmW6r23zas.html
Matanumi
Matanumi 3 gün önce
and of course... nothing happens
Soulwrite7
Soulwrite7 4 gün önce
@TROPtastic I am using riots to describe riots, and would have specified peaceful protests as well if I had any opposition to them, which I do not. There are certainly other examples which could be used, though your thoughts given the example certainly telegraph your own political standing? The current president does seem to speak first, providing ammunition to the media, only then to get outraged when the ammunition is used.
TROPtastic
TROPtastic 4 gün önce
@Soulwrite7 It's interesting how using the word "riots" to encompass the mix of riots and peaceful protests identifies you as being of a certain political persuasion. Leaving that aside though, it's absurd to talk about the *left* trying to violently take over states when the *right* in America has been much more willing to strut around brandishing weapons and to murder their political opponents. Also, if you're concerned about a weak candidate getting elected based on meaningless words and a lack of sound policies and ability to govern, you should be outraged about the current POTUS.
Soulwrite7
Soulwrite7 4 gün önce
The more I think about this, the more terrifying it is. Look at the chaos of the 2020 riots. Everything going before the Supreme Court is the best case scenario. The other option will be for example if the primarily left voters have all the votes go to the right, they violently try and take over their state and succeed, or recast. Or if you have an already establish incumbent president who lost they may refuse to give up their power, because there are many people in these states who had their vote subverted which could lead to a divide in government and a civil war. Finally if you end up with this all passing, and have a direct democracy ( mob rule ) you would be more likely to end up with some charismatic candidate promising homogeneity and doing a knock-off Charlie Chaplin impersonation.
christopher thompson
christopher thompson 4 gün önce
Seems to me like that would solve the whole electoral college minority vote problem. Am I missing something? Surely you would be very pro this judging by your other videos.
Jagzeplin
Jagzeplin 14 saatler önce
"states less populous produce preponderate presidential picking power per person." wat u did there. i sees it
Arkyvaza
Arkyvaza 16 saatler önce
Subvert states rights, because that worked so well the first time it happened.
Weasel Worm
Weasel Worm 18 saatler önce
So now we have the EC being dictated by direct vote within each state. By voters that the founders would have considered unqualified. So, haven’t we, in effect, just gone for a distorted democracy giving rural state voters twice the power of a voter in CA or NY?
systematic101
systematic101 20 saatler önce
popular vote would effective remove the voice of all the small states. A presidential candidate wouldn't really have any reason to visit the small ones. The entire country would be run by a handful of large population states. THIS is why the electoral college is in place.
systematic101
systematic101 17 saatler önce
@santy loza true but very unlikely. It would also still distribute the power across the states instead of it being the same few states dictating the election for all the others.
santy loza
santy loza 17 saatler önce
with the electoral college he can win with only 20% of the people votes
emmett stone
emmett stone 23 saatler önce
Don't some states on that bloc also have laws against faithless electors?
John Tovar
John Tovar Gün önce
I love the electoral college.
Izaya Orihara
Izaya Orihara Gün önce
I just think the electoral college votes shouldn’t be dumped exclusively on the majority winner of each state election, instead being distributed among the two in order to better reflect their opinion. Because the way people talk about it it seems like many states just dump all their electorates in one bowl or the other
oakwood101
oakwood101 Gün önce
It's not even sneaky. I learned this from my state Congress in my high school government class
Никола Тесла
Никола Тесла Gün önce
Why can't America just work like a normal country
Admiral Sequoia
Admiral Sequoia Gün önce
Well... until a point when the popular vote goes toward a candidate that those outside the pact favored... then suddenly the whole deal is conveniently forgotten.
Samuel Wang
Samuel Wang Gün önce
States: "The people? You can't trust the people!" That aged well
Samuel Wang
Samuel Wang 7 dakika önce
@Kyle Watson Not like we can trust them either...
NuggetOG
NuggetOG 4 saatler önce
ahem ahem Karens ahem.
Kyle Watson
Kyle Watson 13 saatler önce
I mean yea, that was the whole point of a republic in the first place. Elected officials probably are more informed than the regular person, so we trust them to represent us
Nabor Martinez
Nabor Martinez Gün önce
I think the Electoral College vote system is the most fair for all 50 States, I don't see how ppl don't see that. If it were up to the popular vote then essentially 4 states would ALWAYS pick the president, NY, California, Texas and Florida because of their populations and the rest of the states would just be on the sidelines looking at them. Also ppl act like the popular vote isn't at play with the Electoral College vote, The big 4 get the most Electoral Votes to begin with so their voices are being heard. The problem is they want total control of electing the President (Mainly NY and Cali) and that would be unfair to the rest of the states.
Bryan Adinolfi
Bryan Adinolfi 4 saatler önce
States should have nothing to do with the election
SKX44
SKX44 Gün önce
@Elliot A. Yeah I don't know why the hell I said that, I meant second but yeah
Elliot A.
Elliot A. Gün önce
@SKX44 > Texas has the largest number of Democrats in the country what? Cali does. Otherwise you're right.
SKX44
SKX44 Gün önce
California has the largest number of Republicans and Texas has the largest number of Democrats in the country. They have no voice in the election. The most fair democratic system to give everyone one vote, regardless of where they live. There is no bias towards any state whereas now states that are about 50/50 have ALL of the power.
L1GHT D3M0N
L1GHT D3M0N Gün önce
This will probably get abused by large blue states...
Agaton Dandenell
Agaton Dandenell Gün önce
@SKX44 because it's the 'other' side. Like wtf "abused"? It's literary voting for the person who should win, the person with the popular vote. This guy just admitted democrats get more votes but still get cheated by the system.
SKX44
SKX44 Gün önce
why would it be "abused" more by large blue states than large red States?
Jamie Schechner
Jamie Schechner Gün önce
Nice job with Rhode Island sitting outside in the constitutional convention...
rockermantintin
rockermantintin 2 gün önce
Commies malding.
insertswear
insertswear 2 gün önce
Did you use the word "cromulent?"
zorq2
zorq2 2 gün önce
5:12 "And there is no problem with this plan at all..." Actually, there IS no legal problem for this plan at all. There will be nobody charging into the SC. Not only are states allowed to send ANYONE they want to the EC, but the people they send can vote ANYWAY they want to too. Sure, they might get some jail time from certain states if they vote against the mandate their state sent them with, but votes from even faithless electors are still valid votes for president.
Zach B
Zach B Gün önce
No they aren’t. A state can block electors votes if it’s against the law.
NoThisIsPratickStar
NoThisIsPratickStar 2 gün önce
People forget that the US is a Republic and not a Democracy. Day one of 8th Grade Constitution class, or did things change since 2011?
santy loza
santy loza 17 saatler önce
Republic is a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president rather than a monarch.
Ser_Lagsalot
Ser_Lagsalot Gün önce
Why do Yanks have such a hard time understanding that representative republics are a subset of democracy?
SKX44
SKX44 Gün önce
These are not mutually exclusive terms. Please learn what a republic and democracy are before spouting this and embarrassing yourself.
Burner Account
Burner Account 2 gün önce
How to start a civil war
Kenzo Noguera G
Kenzo Noguera G 2 gün önce
2:20 The flag changes
Blake Kendall
Blake Kendall 2 gün önce
The premise of a republic is to not allow the masses to rule society, but rather, to have a compromised representation in society amongst the various states. I would argue that today, the importance of republic is to underrepresent the misinformed, domesticated humans that live predominantly in the cities under their metropolitan overlords, so that the conscious and informed Americans, that stay far from the urban centers, can influence the outcome of society. Truthfully, this wouldn't be an issue if we just kept government constitutional and minimal. One of the problems with the STV or scored vote systems, is that they all still leave room for strategic voting and paradoxical outcomes, which are capable of completely disenfranchising low intelligence voters. While I don't care for tyranny of the masses, I don't want to rob stupid people of representation altogether. That would be very sneaky.
Bryan Adinolfi
Bryan Adinolfi 4 saatler önce
“Conscious and informed” do you mean uneducated?
Sam W
Sam W 18 saatler önce
I mean using STV with no plan other than picking your favourite party still works so you're not disenfranchising anyone there. People in cities vs rural areas are not necessarily worse or better informed or capable of making informed decisions - the Internet gives everyone access to the sane information and disinformation to make decisions - a resource as dangerous as it is useful to politics.
Bennett Carlson
Bennett Carlson 2 gün önce
You retarded republicans screech and whine about this plan to make elections actually represent the will of the people and yet turn a blind eye to gerrymandering if democrats did it half as much as republicans you would say that they are actively surrpressing their voices and dems are just evil and undemocratic
Steelmage99
Steelmage99 2 gün önce
"The states less populous produce preponderant presidential picking power per person". I noticed that, and appreciate it. The alliteration, that is....not the rule.
Warrior Link
Warrior Link 2 gün önce
National popular vote is like 5 wolves and 3 sheep voting on what's for dinner. Pure democracies don't work out well long term. Good video!!! Oh, and only tax payers should be allowed to vote!!! 👍
Bennett Carlson
Bennett Carlson 2 gün önce
A direct democracy is when the people vote directly on laws if we got rid of the electoral college congress would still exist the only difference is the president is elected by the majority of people
jahenders
jahenders 2 gün önce
One other note, the 'plus 2 representation' isn't the main/only reason the EC can sometimes pick a winner that nationwide most citizens didn't vote for. The other, bigger reason the EC outcome doesn't more closely reflect popular voting is because most states award their electoral votes winner-take-all (vice proportionally). If they awarded them proportionally, it would be a closer match in most cases (and would better reflect the will of the people in each state). So, if someone wants to modify the EC in a positive way, instead of NPV they should have a compact where all states would award their EVs proportionally. As it is now (and assuming 2 candidates) if 49.99999% of the people of CA (or most other states) vote for candidate A, their candidate gets exactly ZERO EVs from CA (though that clearly wasn't the will of the people of CA).
jahenders
jahenders 2 gün önce
If it goes into effect, comes into play in the election, and causes multiple states to vote for a candidate their people didn't vote for, it will be judicial mayhem. However, it will NOT just be the non-participating states that rush to court. If the NPV overturns the will of the people in, say, Kansas, you can bet your life that voters in KS will be quick to challenge in the KS Supreme Court (moving to block the KS Sec State from validating the results) AND in the US Supreme Court. Then, of course, there's the repercussions in the states that overturned the will of their people. This may be too late to affect that election, but the cynical act of agreeing to the NPV causes the state to vote AGAINST its own citizens, the citizens are going to be pissed and they're going to push hard to pull their state out of the NPV (possibly causing it to become inert). In some cases, the fear of political repercussions could cause a state governor, Sec State, or court to decide that they just don't dare go so flagrantly against the will of their people and they delay to let court challenges decide otherwise.
A Wandering Rōnin
A Wandering Rōnin 2 gün önce
This "plan" by mostly left-leaning states to subvert the Electoral College and change the way we elect our President to whoever gets the Popular Vote is blatantly unconstitutional and should be squashed by the Supreme Court immediately. Article 1, Section 10, Clause 3 of the US Constitution says that "No State shall, without the Consent of Congress,... enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power,..."
A Wandering Rōnin
A Wandering Rōnin 2 gün önce
@Bennett Carlson I suggest you to read Federalist 10 and Federalist 51 by James Madison. He explains my positions on the Electoral College in far better words than I ever could.
Bennett Carlson
Bennett Carlson 2 gün önce
So what your advocating for is a system of government where a minority of people can tell the majority what to do
Richard Daw
Richard Daw 2 gün önce
Is that supposed to be a QR Code at 5:08?
Rolf Mützelburg
Rolf Mützelburg 2 gün önce
I can't wait for New York and Calofornia to rule the entire country. They already run roughshot over every state citizen not living in one of thier 3 major cities, why not just run over the entire midwest and surrounding coastline too. No one respects the republic anymore, just a bunch of dogmatic BS about muh democracy.
Bennett Carlson
Bennett Carlson 2 gün önce
New York and California together only have a fraction of the nations population even if they were in charge then getting rid of the electoral college would allow the republicans in those states to have their voices heard
Tskmaster
Tskmaster 2 gün önce
1:28 I know, I get it, Rhode Island refused to sign the Constitution for years. Time to let it go. It's still the 13th state after being the 13th colony because it's a lucky number. Yessir, lucky 13.
ida schmidt
ida schmidt 2 gün önce
i used the electoral college to destroy the electoral college
Merita M
Merita M 2 gün önce
So instead of campaigning on solutions for issues citizens are concerned of, parties are trying to break the law to essentially have the election be decided by states with the highest populations? Resulting in Civil War 2.0 (with free WiFi)
Nelson Lander
Nelson Lander Gün önce
Cause states with the highest populations have the most amount of people, and you know what democracy is? People voting for what they want.
Solly vs. The Mole-Men
Solly vs. The Mole-Men 2 gün önce
If there ever was a more plausible scenario for a 2nd american civil war this would be the catalyst. A bunch of blue states join together to subvert the constitution with the NaPop Interstate Compact, Election day comes, blue side says their candidate won based on the popular vote, the red side claim that no, their guy won based on the Constitution..there you go... civil war part 2. Also it is not the supreme courts job to make law, only to interpret the law. The electoral college will not go anywhere without an amendment to the constitution which would require a 2/3 majority which is never gona happen. and the blue side knows this, idk why the supreme court would even be involved, the Constitution falls under the Legislative branch, and the supreme court is the judiciary branch. They should for all intents and purposes have ZERO say in the elections.... This country has become so as backwards
Dip Dinger
Dip Dinger 2 gün önce
This is how you end up with an entire country being ran by a few populous centers
Bennett Carlson
Bennett Carlson 2 gün önce
The republicans in those popular centers would actually have their voices heard tho
Tom Ryan
Tom Ryan 2 gün önce
If you live in a state with low population your vote won't count so why should a politician represent you
Bennett Carlson
Bennett Carlson 2 gün önce
It doesn't count under the electoral college anyways your vote only counts if you live in a swing state getting rid of the electoral college would turn america from red states and blue states to purple states
Jahnandri Villanuevas
Jahnandri Villanuevas 3 gün önce
People should elect the president not the electoral college wtf are congress doing I though we elected the president and they come up with these bullshit that elected people we dotn k ow nothing about elects the president how do we k ow they aren’t been bride .
Ratchet4647
Ratchet4647 3 gün önce
Cute scarf and mittens for Alaska I'd like to see more of the states have cultural accessories.
Belgiumelephant
Belgiumelephant 3 gün önce
I dont like this idea I'd rather have educated people choose my president
santy loza
santy loza 17 saatler önce
so you rather someone else choose instead of you
Cabbage
Cabbage 2 gün önce
You should..... Probably think way harder about what you just said. Cause that is a very very dangerous and elitist line of thought. And it tends to not end well because "education" is veeerrry subjective.
Dragodonv2
Dragodonv2 3 gün önce
I would love to see cute state girl art.
marsjacobvolta
marsjacobvolta 3 gün önce
I love how you called it a coup because that's exactly what it would be. I would much rather see an argument of substance rather than just doing a shady deal to overthrow the system. We can change the system but we should do it together. Using loopholes to subvert the system is a great way to turn a cold civil war into a hot one.
404Dannyboy
404Dannyboy 2 gün önce
How would making an unfair system fair by using the system be considered a coup?
Bennett Carlson
Bennett Carlson 2 gün önce
"We" can't change the system because by definition a broken system will always favor one group over the other, do you think the republicans would be for the electoral college if it was against them?
MrBobberino01
MrBobberino01 3 gün önce
We should go back to only land owners can vote.
lukassnakeman
lukassnakeman 3 gün önce
democratic republic governments made sense when information traveled at the speed of horse and sail, and most everyone was illiterate. but in the modern 21st century we are ready for a direct democracy
Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater 3 gün önce
Thus, all it takes is a few states to allow non-citizens onto the voting register to change the balance of the Electoral College votes.
Watersmith53
Watersmith53 3 gün önce
I am seeing something in a plausible future, say, 20 years down the road, maybe even 8-12, where the national popular vote squeaks into the "red" zone, and California, Massachusetts, New York, and DC, among others, must vote "red," and I'm thinking, "Yeah, they're going to let that happen. Right?"
Lorenzo La Bella
Lorenzo La Bella 3 gün önce
Dude, your Constitution just basically sucks.
santy loza
santy loza 17 saatler önce
@jghgiroot republics are democratic
Enderboss
Enderboss Gün önce
@Lorenzo La Bella the constitution never mentioned slavery for obvious reasons... also your probably talking about the bill of rights which is completely different
jghgiroot
jghgiroot 3 gün önce
@Lorenzo La Bella I mean...I did make it perfectly clear that I didn't want to engage? Dont know if I hit a nerve or it's just bruised ego, all I'm saying is go into a conversation with understanding next time...lol. I also find it quite ironic that your "wall of text" reply said absolutely nothing and had no actual retorts to my "wall of text" and actually continued in what seems to be a theme of your replies, incorrect statements.
Lorenzo La Bella
Lorenzo La Bella 3 gün önce
@jghgiroot ... You're wasting time and walls of text on these, not me. Your political landscape? Don't make me laugh. Your two parties are the result of the limitations of the electoral college: once two pinnacles of blandness with virtually undistinguishable platforms in order to have the broadest appeal possible, now one pinnacle of blandness and one of assholery. If the electoral college was actually representative, you would have a multi-party system like almost every democracy under the Sun. If citizens in rural areas were really to be represented, their votes would have to hold exactly the same weight of those of the citizens of urban areas, which is to say one for each person, which is to say direct election, which is to say no electoral college, as many, many videos like this one have already proven. As for the 2nd amendment helping drive up gun crimes, read statistics and confront them with those of countries who don't have a similar law (or have gun control: the effect is the same). You will find my claims are founded on reality. I have said all I needed to say and judging by the condescension with which your wall of text was dripping with, it's not debate you're interested in, but proving the other guy's argunents are invalid. I'm not interested in this mode of communication. Therefore you may reply as you wish to this reply of mine, but you'll waste your time. I won't waste mine by reading it and replying to it and perpetuating a vicious cycle. Goodbye.
jghgiroot
jghgiroot 3 gün önce
@Lorenzo La Bella Alright, I guess you really want to waste your time on this. With your first point (first off it's the 13th, not the 14th amendment), I don't think you understand that generally in liberalism (in it's classic sense at least, which the us constitution is based on), you maintain freedoms until you infringe on another person's freedoms (which criminality tends to be punished on), at which point we basically allow the state to take you against your will and completely restrict your freedoms (basically turning you into a "slave" in every sense of the word), now I can agree that maybe extracting slave labor out of a criminal doesn't necessarily produce good outcomes for society in the long run and I concede that point to you that we should probably amend that part, but make no mistake, it absolutely completely restricts your freedoms to the fullest extent when the government takes you and throws you in prison for a crime. Now another thing we could do in the US is probably focus more on rehabilitation than punishment for criminals-but this has nothing to do with the constitution you're so vehemently against for whatever reason. As for this whole 2nd amendment thing you wrote, I highly doubt you could actually justify your position unless you're authoritarian or maybe get your ethics from some kind of religious base-that the threat of political violence against a government of a country by it's citizens is necessarily a bad thing. If you're looking at outcomes which it seems that you are, an easier way to just produce much better outcomes than what we have is to heavily increasing screenings for gun ownership and licensing, and maybe start treating it much more responsibly than we currently do, and also deal with a lot of mental health issues that cause gun violence in the first place(again things that have nothing to do with the constitution your so worried about)-this deals with all the outcomes that you seem so worried about by a ton without even exhausting political capital for a position that might not even be necessarily morally good. As for the electoral college, you continue to prove how little you understand about it, or even political philosophy in general, like how you keep using this word "democratic" without fully understanding it's ramifications, I mean I don't know if you understand this but being fully democratic means every issue is voted by referendum (and you keep saying "presidential republic"-America is a constitutional republic, so I don't know what you mean). The reason for the electoral college is so that people in states with smaller populations/rural areas could have somewhat of a say in who gets to run their country, now if the outcome of this is that maybe bad people get into office because of how rural areas tend to be more ignorant, that isn't even necessarily a problem with the constitution itself and more a problem with the education system in this country. And to be more clear, I don't know if I necessarily even agree with the electoral college, I just don't understand why ignorant people think it's such an easy fix especially in a country like the US, which seems to be the problem with all the shit you're saying at the end of the day-It seems like the shit I hear Europeans say (especially the ones lacking academic knowledge on this) about the problems in America and their ideas for solutions seem to be from a place of complete ignorance and lack of understanding of the demographics, culture, population and just general ignorance of the political landscape in the country (which I think is very ironic considering it's one of the things Americans get lambasted for), the fact that even in the end out of the 27 amendments in the constitution you were so fixated on using 3 to discredit the whole thing just proves how little you know of this matter. If you're going to criticize something, understand it a lot more.
Bo Jangles
Bo Jangles 3 gün önce
I’m on board 100%
Kevin McMahon
Kevin McMahon 3 gün önce
There are Amendments to the US Constitution. Can new amendments be made? A Universal Vote (a Referendum) to change a law for voter rights, reproductive rights, or anti-religious rights? When was the last time the common citizen changed the Constitution?
Hörmetjan Yiltiz
Hörmetjan Yiltiz 3 gün önce
The states less populous produce preponderate presidential picking power per person.
Nunya _
Nunya _ 3 gün önce
Great...now I want popcorn. 🍿
FragmentalStew
FragmentalStew 3 gün önce
I think, if enacted, this would significantly increase the number of people who vote because people would know that their vote actually contributes to who wins.
Dj Clabe
Dj Clabe 3 gün önce
"The states less populous produce preponderate presidential picking power per person" I see what you did there 👀
Matt T
Matt T 3 gün önce
For the states outside of this agreement, this will be seen as a coup d'état. I can very much imagine widespread violence and fighting in the aftermath.
404Dannyboy
404Dannyboy Gün önce
@BFN Valley No it isn't mob rule, nor is it direct democracy. America is a republic. All that having an actual democratic vote for president would do is make it somewhat more representative. At the moment the rural states already get a better showing in the senate and arguably in the house as well. The rural areas would still get their representation in the presidential vote, just fairly for once, unlike in the senate.
BFN Valley
BFN Valley Gün önce
Vector Direct democracy doesn’t work. Our current electoral college system allows all communities from the rural and urban areas to be represented equally. Why should areas that have huge populations that all share the same ideals get to decide every election just because they have a population the rural areas could never hope to have? That’s mob rule.
Matt T
Matt T Gün önce
@Vector It wouldn't matter as much if the federal government wasn't so bloated and powerful. But with a direct democracy you basically invalidate ~40% of the country. For some reason the framers set up the system the way they did, and I sincerely doubt that you know better.
Vector
Vector Gün önce
Mišo ElEven electing anyone other than the person who gained the most votes from the people how do you come to the the conclusion that could make sense or ever be a good idea?
404Dannyboy
404Dannyboy Gün önce
@Mišo ElEven I genuinely couldn't understand your first sentence for all your garbled English. Your second sentence is irrelevant to the topic.
Cody Christie
Cody Christie 3 gün önce
Travel back in time to the writing of the Constitution, & all the folks have ribbons & pig tails? Maybe wrong dimension.
Michael Timpson
Michael Timpson 3 gün önce
Actually if they did this so that they counted ALL the popular vote, meaning ALL American citizens, regardless if they lived in a territory, overseas, etc. then it would be perfect. But you would definitely need laws preventing faithless electors. Also, you can't have some state dropping out of the agreement right after the election, but before the electoral college meets either....
Michael Timpson
Michael Timpson 3 gün önce
Also, many inputs were designed to take ADAT 8 tracks...including regular common digital inputs. In fact, the machines were easily syncable so that you could modularly build up to as many tracks as you need.
Cara Barnes
Cara Barnes 3 gün önce
I mean it's 2020 so anything can happen this year
SammyJammyBammy
SammyJammyBammy 4 gün önce
Hey! that's Doune castle @2:20 - the castle used in Monty Python: The Holy Grail - this has got to be one of grey's Easter eggs!
john jones
john jones 4 gün önce
Well, I mean sure, there have been plenty of times when the president is not the person who got the most votes, but the thing is, it is so the states are equal and not ignored, if it was not like this you would only need to focus on the states with more people, meaning the president does not need to represent the most states, just the most people. So those states that have less population would most likely feel like the government does not care about them.
Zolfried
Zolfried 4 gün önce
it happended once, it can happen again.. lets do brexit the american version..
irmuu sanaa
irmuu sanaa 4 gün önce
Yeaaaa... there are exactly ten 10 states who have joined this mess.
irmuu sanaa
irmuu sanaa 3 gün önce
Arnout H it’s still a horrible idea since it will just replace swing states with population centers and based on current political mind sent could theoretically create a one party system with out knowing it.
irmuu sanaa
irmuu sanaa 3 gün önce
Arnout H oh yea I was looking at a map from 2019
Arnout H
Arnout H 3 gün önce
You mean 16, right?
TheHobgoblyn
TheHobgoblyn 4 gün önce
"a thousand generations of this Republic".... uhh... how long do you think the U.S.A. has been around? That's got to be one of the dumbest lines I have ever heard uttered on a history channel. The U.S.A. hasn't been around for even 10 human generations and, even if you mean 4 year cycles, that would be 4,000 years. Even if you could possibly mean 1-year cycles? Dude-- the U.S. hasn't been around for even 250 years (though it is coming up on that.)
Arnout H
Arnout H 3 gün önce
Since when is this a history channel? Also, ever heard of hyperbole?
AestheticSloth
AestheticSloth 4 gün önce
And now the electoral votes have to go to the popular vote thanks to lobbyists in the supreme court. Big RIP
liam gil
liam gil 4 gün önce
This seems silly. Why would a state give up its political power to citizens who it doesnt represent? There is no benefit.
Bennett Carlson
Bennett Carlson 2 gün önce
A fair and accurate election seems pretty good to me
Vince Marenger
Vince Marenger 4 gün önce
How is America even a real country? Even the electoral system is incredibly messed up!
Vince Marenger
Vince Marenger 3 gün önce
​@Jacob In Canada, you can actually choose between multiple ideas (expand the social-democracy, maintain it, diminish it, Green Party and Quebec's interests) See that? They ARE ALL currently in the parliament!!! THAT'S the average western democracy!!! ***** In the usa, you can either choose between neoliberalism, or neoliberalism. (that is, you get sick, you either die or go bankrupt) Too bad, so sad : ( ***** Want a real western democracy? Start by dismantling the "electoral college". That would be the first step
Jacob
Jacob 3 gün önce
Ser_Lagsalot Something can only be messed up if it is doing something incorrectly. However that is not what is happening in the U.S election system, as it is operating as it was meant to operate. It being counter intuitive is also falsity the electoral college was designed as a compromise between the thirteen colonies as at that time they were all de facto independent and trying to create a federal republic tying them together as one country. The electoral college operates as it does because states are an important part of American governance and they did not want one state or several ( at the signing of the constitution that state being Virginia with the largest population) to have a greater say then other less populous states. It does its duty of electing a President with marveling efficiency. If people would call it messed up then they would really have to nitpick. If we had any other form of government would the system be any less “messed up”?
Ser_Lagsalot
Ser_Lagsalot 3 gün önce
@Jacob 'Working as intended' doesn't necessarily preclude the notion that it's a "messed up" design, though. From the outside, it looks like a counter intuitive system of elections within elections to decide who actually gets to vote, and where the value of a vote is determined by geography.
Jacob
Jacob 3 gün önce
Vince Marenger It’s not messed up. Did you even watch the video? It’s working exactly as it was intended to work.
Alexander Eick
Alexander Eick 4 gün önce
I like the consequences but not the means
Mark Ingoldsby
Mark Ingoldsby 4 gün önce
What the heck does "gromulent" mean? TIA
Some Guy
Some Guy 4 gün önce
If this wins, states with small populations won’t see a lot of campaigning. Like, at all. In fact, wasn’t the whole point to begin with to prevent people from nabbing the election by focusing only on big cities? This seems like it would kind of make the system wors-
Jarry Pota
Jarry Pota 2 gün önce
@Some Guy most minds have been made up in swing states it just happens that theres about an equal amount for both of the parties so those few non aligned voters have more of a sway as to who gets the majority.
Jarry Pota
Jarry Pota 2 gün önce
@Some Guy but if you tally up all the people who vote against the majority in all the safe states you get quite a sizeable unrepresented group of electorate.
Some Guy
Some Guy 2 gün önce
Jarry Pota People living in safe states do have an effect, it’s just that they’re likely to vote for whoever the rest of the state votes for. If there were enough people willing to vote for the other side, it wouldn’t be a safe state anymore.
Some Guy
Some Guy 2 gün önce
Neven Tomičić Think of it this way, would you rather the focus be states where minds haven’t been made up and there would therefore be competition between political factions, or would you rather the focus be a number of high-population city states which mostly vote one way anyway.
Jarry Pota
Jarry Pota 2 gün önce
Most campaigning already happens in swing states. Anyone living in a safe state doesn't have an effect on who should be in charge. A popular vote would empower rural voters in majority metropolitan States.
KAY DE
KAY DE 4 gün önce
I’m basically that stick figure that just said wait what? o.O
David Kirkland
David Kirkland 4 gün önce
Eventually states will ignore the national majority and just agree to vote for who the elites want. We will have reached full-blown banana republic. Soon because the "silent majority" stays silent (denial).
404Dannyboy
404Dannyboy Gün önce
@David Kirkland And you are full of it, uneducated, and ignorant. Exactly the type of person who benefits from our current unfair voting system.
David Kirkland
David Kirkland Gün önce
@404Dannyboy You're naive, impetuous, and arrogant... exactly the type of tyrannical urban voter the system is designed to contain.
404Dannyboy
404Dannyboy Gün önce
@David Kirkland "I say that as someone that holds multiple higher level degrees from top universities" press x to doubt. Again, I know they did it purposefully. That doesn't make it correct. I'll not repeat that again. Having a presidential election come down to potentially pernicious electors is not sensible, no matter the reason. Having the presidential vote be down to something other than a direct majority vote is also unnecessary despite their reasoning at the time. Smaller states already get over represented through the senate so they don't need help with the presidency as well, especially not now that the presidency has become so much more powerful an office than any of the founders envisioned.
David Kirkland
David Kirkland Gün önce
​@404Dannyboy Being "better educated" does not make you more intelligent or correct. It simply means you've endured more propaganda and (maybe) have memorized more data pertaining to a specific topic. I say that as someone that holds multiple higher level degrees from top universities. With that said, I wasn't patronizing you, I was criticizing the rapidly degrading quality of academia. The founding fathers didn't accidentally create the "imbalance". A simple popular vote would have been easier. They designed a more complicated system on purpose. Reverting to a national popular vote would not correct an imbalance. The electoral college is not an oversight that needs to be corrected. It's a measure put in place to decentralize power and prevent the imbalance you unwittingly seek to create. One can argue that its not the best possible solution, but eagerly endorsing changes when you don't understand the motivation or intent of the existing design and how it mitigates injustice amounts to foolishness. The Federalist and Anti-Federalist Papers are a great place to START to understand not just WHAT the founding fathers built, but WHY they built it that way. Clearly you haven't read them. I'm not suggesting they amount to law like the sovereign citizens proclaim. I am suggesting they provide insight, nurture wisdom, and help to combat the arrogant appeal to novelty that has become so pervasive.
404Dannyboy
404Dannyboy Gün önce
@David Kirkland Don't take such a patronizing tone when I am almost definitely better educated than you. I am not saying the imbalance is unintentional, I am saying it is no good. The founding fathers didn't think to outlaw slavery, to give women the vote, or to correct or amend any of a great number of injustices. As a nation we have corrected many of these imbalances over time to make for a more free and equitable society. The imbalance in presidential voting is just one of those many imbalances we have had to correct. Also stop waving the anti federalist papers like one of those sovereign citizen nuts.
William Dunhan
William Dunhan 4 gün önce
It's treasonous. No sugar-coating it. No Technicality. No greater good. It's treasonous & it's evil.
William Dunhan
William Dunhan 3 gün önce
@Arnout H it was a bill passed by Congress that, for all intents & purposes, sold America. The system we are currently under is the United States of America inc. When tjey say "it's just business" believe them.
weetdirt
weetdirt 3 gün önce
@William Dunhan Changing the way that works has happened several times. 17th amendment, 14th amendment (sorry, feds now get to tell you who votes), Congress fixing the number of representatives in the early 20th century and therefore inflating the power of small states, 3/5 compromise giving slave states outsize representation, and that's just what I can recall.
Arnout H
Arnout H 3 gün önce
William Dunhan I did, I couldn’t find anything.
William Dunhan
William Dunhan 3 gün önce
@Arnout H look it up.
Arnout H
Arnout H 3 gün önce
William Dunhan what fundamental change are you talking about?
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